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 Hibernian FC 
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Registriert: Montag 28. März 2005, 23:56
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A little question to the Celts here...

Is there something like a friendship between you and hibernian maybe just between some groups of fans on each side.

Which other Teams in Scotland have somethign like an "irish Background" one of the Clubs from Dundee should have haven´t they?

I dont know very much about the other SPL Clubs, but in the last times i interested more in the historys of the other clubs, i would be thankful for some help...

And sorry for all the mistakes in the text above...


Donnerstag 5. Mai 2005, 14:49
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Registriert: Dienstag 29. März 2005, 16:36
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Wohnort: Balloch, Scotland
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There is no need to apologise for your post - your English puts our German to shame.

Your question about Hibs - no I wouldn't say there is any sort of affinity between Celtic and Hibs. You do get some Hibs supporters who are proud of their Irish roots and sometimes see them at Irish Republican nights when they play in Edinburgh.

However Hibs have gradually merged into a Scottish club and try to distance themselves further and further from their Irish roots. I'm sure many Celtic fans would agree here. They do however have an Irish Harp on their badge which they have reverted back to in more recent years. There was an incident occured many years ago (I believe it was in the 50's, I'm not that old so can't remember S003.gif) where the SFA tried to ban the Irish tri-colour being flown above Celtic Park - it went to a vote and Hibs never supported Celtic on this issue. Probably more surprising to you would be that Rangers supported Celtic on this issue.

In my opinion (and one shared by many Celtic fans today) is that there is somewhat of an anti-Irish agenda in Scotland, particularly in the West coast. This has been prevalent for years and still exists - though many will deny this.

Of the Dundee teams - it would be Dundee United who are termed the 'Irish' team, known originally as Dundee Hibernian. Their original strip was green - a strip they reverted back too recently as an away shirt.

If you would like to read more about this, Celtic and the Irish diaspora in Scotland I would recommend a book called 'Celtic Minded' - its an excellent read.


Donnerstag 5. Mai 2005, 19:38
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Registriert: Montag 28. März 2005, 23:56
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First of all thank you for your answer...

I will try to get that book somewhere round here...

Zitat:
Probably more surprising to you would be that Rangers supported Celtic on this issue.


Well that really is surprising for me, how comes that?


Donnerstag 5. Mai 2005, 19:42
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Registriert: Dienstag 29. März 2005, 16:36
Beiträge: 41
Wohnort: Balloch, Scotland
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If you are looking for the book I would expect you should be able to buy it on Amazon.

The book's full title is 'Celtic Minded - Essays on religion, politics, society, identity.....and football'

The author is Joseph M Bradley - although it is actually a compilation of essays by various people.

There is one essay called 'Why Celtic?' written by a St Pauli fan, Heiko Schlesselmann. Its a very good essay and one that would be of particular interest to you and other St Pauli fans. If I get time I will perhaps try and post this essay on here!

About the tricolour issue and why Rangers voted with Celtic - noone really knows. All I know is what I've read about it - I picked up a book there 'Celtic's Paranoia....all in the mind?' to remind myself of it as there is a chapter on this issue in the book.

Basically Celtic were in trouble with the SFA in 1952 over crowd problems - some crowd incidents occurred and particularly at a recent Celtic v Rangers match. A series of proposals were drawn up and one of them included the banning of all flags and banners that could perceivably incite trouble or hatred.

Now during the 1950's there wasn't many flags/banners taken to games so this was seen as a thinly veiled threat against the tricolour being flown at Celtic Park. In fact Celtic not only flew the tricolour but also the Union Jack too (although we don't like admitting to that S003.gif). A threat which the SFA eventually ordered Celtic to carry out. A Hibernian board member was one of the main instigators behind this.

Celtic were threatened with being thrown out of the league over this issue. Celtic would not back down on the issue and refused to take the flag down, Celtics then chairman Bob Kelly delivering a very passionate speech about the reasons why we fly the Irish tricolour and its significance to our club. It went to a vote and Celtic won (just!) 16 votes to 15 votes. Many believe the reason Rangers backed Celtic because they realised financially it would be a disaster for them if Celtic were expelled due to the crowds and revenue Celtic brought into the game, not to mention the damage it would do to the competitive side of the Scottish game.

Thankfully we stood firm over this issue and won the battle. We shall not be moved, as the song says! S008.gif


Donnerstag 5. Mai 2005, 20:05
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Registriert: Montag 28. März 2005, 23:13
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Wohnort: Meistens Hamburg
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Balloch Bhoy hat geschrieben:
There is one essay called 'Why Celtic?' written by a St Pauli fan, Heiko Schlesselmann. Its a very good essay and one that would be of particular interest to you and other St Pauli fans. If I get time I will perhaps try and post this essay on here!


Heiko is well known. He is the coordinator of the FC St. Pauli - fanproject.

Bild

(The left one)


Donnerstag 5. Mai 2005, 22:13
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Registriert: Dienstag 29. März 2005, 16:36
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Wohnort: Balloch, Scotland
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dosenwitz hat geschrieben:
Balloch Bhoy hat geschrieben:
There is one essay called 'Why Celtic?' written by a St Pauli fan, Heiko Schlesselmann. Its a very good essay and one that would be of particular interest to you and other St Pauli fans. If I get time I will perhaps try and post this essay on here!


Heiko is well known. He is the coordinator of the FC St. Pauli - fanproject.

Bild

(The left one)


Dosenwitz - thanks for that.

I'm sure we met Heiko when we were in Hamburg but never knew it was him - I'm sure he is the guy who kindly opened up the St Pauli shop for us so we could bring some of the excellent St Pauli merchandise home.


Donnerstag 5. Mai 2005, 22:19
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Registriert: Montag 28. März 2005, 23:13
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Heiko was so nice to send me the essay. If someone publish the text, you have to state the author (Joe Bradley), the publisher of the book ( Argyll Publishing ) and the whole name of the book (Celtic Minded: Essays on Religion, Politics, Society, Identity... and Football)

Why Celtic ?

Many friends, many other Supporters of FC St.Pauli Hamburg or other german football clubs have been ask why we have a strong affinity to Celtic Football Club and its supporters. Also on several occasions around European Games or home games of Celtic we have been ask by the Celtic supporters themselves why we, as a german and non-catholic, support Celtic ? The answer is on one hand very easy but on the other side not.
Celtic-Supporters are special, they are unique in its behaviour, in their views, political opinions and are mostly tolerant towards other religions, style of living or look. They are proud of their irish roots, their foundation by Brother Walfried but also are not clerical to non-catholics. To look a bit closer what makes Celtic Supporters so special I have to go a bit back in the history of following Celtic, as a German football supporter from FC St.Pauli Hamburg. In the end of the 80´s the supporters of FC St.Pauli were following their club in the 1st league of Germany for three years and from a crowd of 3.500 it grows up to 20.000. There were a lot squattered houses and a long left-wing tradition in the district St.Pauli, which also influenced more and more the supporters of the club. We were starting to be famous for being alternative, left-wing and bringing new political views (the german stadiums were infiltrated by organised fascist parties and hooligans) to the terraces. The first non-hooligan or –rightwing Football Fanzine was started (Millerntor Roar) and the fight against right-wing, Rascism and Fascism in Football makes us known in whole Europe (the St.Pauli-Fans against Rechts-Sticker were sold more than 2 million times). From London one of the main active St.Pauli-Supporters was invited to speak in front of Football Supporters in England and on this night he first get into contact to Celtic Supporters and it was a long night and the special link between similar football loving people starts. After that he introduced more and more St.Pauli-Supporters to have a look at the people following Celtic and the games in Bern, Ekeren, Neuchatel, Lisbon, Cologne, Dortmund, Paris, Zuerich, Lyon and so on let the friendship between both parts of the supporters growing up. But why do we feel comfortable with Celtic and their supporters ? Beside the contribution of tolerance against other football supporters, the contribution of left political ideas into the conservative and nationalist football scene the development of the fascination of the Celtic Fanscene was formed by another way of facing the club (independent of sporting success). Normally, for supporters of a football team, the most important thing in their life is success, being top of the league and the best team of the world. The Celtic supporters pay for fight, stake and showing proudness to play for the hoops is as much important as success. In the „unsuccessful“ times of the mid ninties with being second behind Rangers and leaving european cups early, the supporters backed their club and team and gave credit to the players when they tried everything. They were not booing, yelling their or the opponent team. They give credit to the better opponents and still applaude their hoops. That was impressive at so many games and teach us a lot. The same behaviour Celtic Supporters show in the streets, bars and cities of the european host. They fight against the bad reputation of Football-Fans. Being awarded as best football supporters in 2003 for their behaviour in the UEFA-Cup-Final in Seville was no wonder for us, because this is the way how they behave since years and what makes them so special.
But also they are not like sheeps, who just follow one leader or accept all orders, who won´t stand for their rights. They fight against injustice, police oppression and undue behaviour of their own or opponent supporters. Staying together as a unity as Celtic Supporters against attackers. These could be violent and aggressive attacks by hooligans or violent elements from other teams or attacks of the club board against the views, opinions or traditions of the green and white hoops. The different initiatives, like „Celtic Fans against Bigotry“, „Racism“ or „Fascism“ are good examples.
But not only their own problems are interesting for Celtic Supporters. Also the fights against oppression, for independence movements in Europe or the world is a special thing about parts of the Supporters of Parkhead. This is another positive thing about Celtic Supporters. They are well educated about the movements in Palestine, the Basque Country, Chiapas or South Africa and support them as well as they did for the Irish struggle for decades.
Another impressive and astonish thing is the world wide spreading of Celtic Supporters. Through their irish roots there are Celtic Supporters and Celtic Supporters Clubs in nearly every corner of the world. On a trip through South America i was in a village with 1.500 inhabitants in Bolivia. There was an Irish Pub and the owner was a mad Celtic Supporter. In Seville during the days of the European Cup Final 2003 we met Celtic Supporters with Irish Roots from New York, Australia, Argentina and also the Antarctica (he works there). Through Celtic i first get contact to Irish people from Belfast, Dublin or Derry and they invited me to visit there country. In a very warm and friendly atmosphere they teach me more about irish history and the herewith attached history of Celtic. Never met a more traditional and historical Club than Celtic. Anywhere in Ireland you meet Celtic Supporters in Celtic Pubs who are organising trips to the games (which are all away games) and have a really strong affinity to the club in spite of hundreds of miles away from Parkhead. Irish people went all over the world in the last hundred years but take their roots and their club with them. It is fantastic to meet so many different Celtic Supporters from many parts of Europe at the games. On one occasion i went to an Old Firm with a Supporters Club from Dublin and the long line of buses, the crowded ferries were marvellous.
When i firstly visit a game of Glasgow Celtic i was surprised of the friendly and peaceful atmosphere they create in Cologne without giving up their political ideas. It was a mixture of hard drinking, singing, celebrating, behaving like guests in a foreign country and city but still stand to their irish history, for their antirascist opinion and to their tolerance towards their own people and the people which showed up.
They always make us feel comfortable and welcome. I have been travelling through European football a lot and at mostly every club in Europe you find aggressive, scaring people. But the history of Celtic, the irish roots make them behave different. In 1996 we organised a double decker bus to Glasgow for a weekend and a home game of Celtic against Motherwell. The whole weekend was magnificient. There were Irish Rebel Bands playing in every pub on every night and we got in contact with so many Celtic supporters who were also political thinking people and not only consumating football. There was a spiritual kinship. Celtic Supporters form their club, their audience, their life of football.
Many Football Fanzines exist, many fundraising gigs have been organised for different political or charitable reasons, this all makes it more than worth supporting this special club from abroad and be a part of the community around parkhead.

Heiko Schlesselmann (31 years)
Supporter of FC St.Pauli Hamburg since 1985, Supporter of Celtic FC since 1992


Freitag 10. Juni 2005, 15:00
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Registriert: Dienstag 29. März 2005, 10:57
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S005.gif Dosenwitz for posting the article.

S005.gif Heiko - that really makes me proud every time I read it, be assured many many Celtic fans appreciate the St Pauli connection & are proud as hell of it!!!

S050.gif

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Montag 13. Juni 2005, 12:39
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